RECENT and CURRENT INDIANS
(Page Updated Dec. 2007)
We pick up the story from the 1955-85 era web page after Floyd Clymer (who died in 1970) and his lawyer held the trade names and marks for use on their English and Italian made Indians (culminating in the stillborn Ducati Indiana prototype of 1975), the rights were licensed to a Taiwanese company to make mini-bikes. After some initial success production ceased and by the 1980's the trade mark had sort of gotten lost in the sense that many different people, mostly one-man restoration businesses, were using the mark. In a sense it had fallen into the public domain and there was no legal thread to follow. By the early 1990's with the heavyweight cruiser and touring market booming, several parties began disputing ownership of the names and logos. These legal battles took place in the USA and Canada. Some con-men and even the Cow Creek band of Umpqua Tribe aboriginals of Oregon claimed legal title (the first time Indians had gotten involved with Indian motorcycles.) At least three parties (the native Indians group plus two con men named Philip Zhangi and Wayne Baughman) smoked up "pipe dreams" of a new Chief, but these motorcycles never got beyond the prototype stage.
First photos show some of the IMMI Chiefs made in 1994. The photos below (courtesy of Canadian Biker and Classic Bike magazine)include a wooden mockup of the engine! Cynics called it "The Wooden Indian" and they were right!. I do like the look of the frame and fenders though (compare ugly fat rear fender on 1999-2003 Chief) and the rear chain was on the "correct" side. The other photos are later in time than the wooden mockup and are of real, running machines.
Viewer Jim Gallagher provided the following info on the 3 running Chiefs that were made. [Thanks, Jim. I have put my own comments in square brackets - web designer and author. ]
Although the engines are not refined, they did look good in person. Made about 75 HP. (torque about 100 ft. lbs. Between 2000 rpm and redline) They were prototype engines and gearboxes, so had their share of issues. But the exhaust note of the engine in the red bike @ 6,200 RPM sounded much like a small block Chevy sprint car engine ... quite a song !
OTHER SPECS:
Fork rake - 29 deg [much more sensible and better looking than the chopperish
rake on the 1999-2003 Chiefs]
Engine Size - 1657 cc's
Torque - about 55ft lbs from idle, 85 @ 1750 RPM, to about a peak of 107 ft
lbs (@ 6500 rpm?)
Gearbox - 4 speed
Clutch - Wet Clutch
Frame - 4130 Chromemoly
Weight - 755 lbs dry [about the same as other current big V-twins, so these
Chiefs aren't as heavy as their engines make them look]
Fuel : sequential port fuel injection (same basic system that powered Toyota
to the IMSA GTP Championship) [WOW, the 1999 - 2003 Indians were all just carburetted]
Ignition : Dual Ignition Coils - Coil on plug design (mounted in the cylinder
head) - as on a 2000 Chevy Trail Blazer
Piston Bore : Big Block Chevy, I think the stroke was a little shorter though
The suspension was basically a derivative design, using technology from the
suspension designers at Penske Racing (front shocks and springs) and the rear
mono shock was based on an old Norton racing bike. [impressive]
[I also see from the photos that these mills were liquid cooled. Altogether
a much more advanced design that what was offered by another company five years
later. Too bad these IMMI bikes never got their bugs out and went into production.
If they had there would have been no talk of the new Indians being Harley clones,
and they could have succeeded in the market place. Again, other than the un-avoidableness
of the crudeness of the prototype engines, I think they look a lot more like
a 1950-53 Chief and thus more gorgeous than the 1999 - 2003 effort by the Gilroy
based company.]
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Meanwhile the California Motorcycle Company with a long and good reputation for building imitation Harley-Davidson Evolution (TM reg.) type engines (but of larger displacement) and a Toronto Canada clothing and fashion company who'd been selling Indian logo's T-shirts etc., along with some other wealthy contenders to the intellectual property, formed a consortium and put their money ($30M to be exact) together and went into legal battle against the other claimants. A Colorado court appointed a receiver who decided the name and logo (intellectual property rights) should go to the group that had not just the most money but also the best prospects of making a real motorycle soon. Clearly the California-Canadian group had the money and had been building reliable engines and other components for years, so they won the legal battle. While some folks still argue the issue, the courts made it clear who is the "real" Indian motorcycle maker. The amalgamated group called itself Indian Motorcycle Corporation and produced a Chief in 1999. In 2000 a Scout model was addeed and in 2001 a Spirit was added to the line. In 2002 the Chief got a new engine (bigger, looking a lot less like a Harley Evo, and with the carb on the left side like and old Indian)and a primary case that looked a bit more like an old Chief and less like a current Harley big twin. In 2003 a Vintage version of the Chief was added, which looked more like the original 1950-53 Chiefs (perverserly though the fork shrouds were removed - duh!). However although every year the company sold a much larger number of bikes than the previous year, such that impressive growth existed, and even within the first six months Chief sales eclipsed the Polaris Victory (another wholly USA owned and made big twin). BUT the actual number of bikes was only about 10% of what had been expected and what was needed to make a profit. Production ceased suddenly in Sept. 2003, with the company having lost $150M and needing another $50 - $100M to keep going. In a little less than five years only 3,800 motorcycles had been sold, with another 2500 in dealerships but unsold to riders as of Sept. 2003. In retrospect the Canadians plan to make a few hundred motorycles (500 - 1000 per annum) to "front" the big clothing and accessory line were proved right and the gung-ho Americans fell hard. However their goal was only to take away 5% of Harley's Big Twin business, which does not seem wildly optimistic. So for the second time in exactly fifty years Harley punched out Indian. (Image shows 1999 Chief.)
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It should be added though that the 1999-2003 Indians were not as reliable as Harley or any other large V-twin: riders wrote to this web author complaining of mechanical, electrical and brake problems, and every magazine road test found its Chief with a flaw (e.g. leaking rear shock, leaking rear cylinder, chirping noise, gear shifting problems) and most found the brakes were reminiscent of a 1966- 1971 era Harley (wooden and and weak). Ironically, given the huge size and mass of sheet metal, handling (other than braking) was always found to be good for a heavy cruiser, better than many competitors. My own concerns about the 1999-2003 Chiefs were:
1) the fork rake was excessive (34 degrees is more like a chopper and the gap between fender and down-tubes was too big);
2) rear fender was way too fat (and covering the rear brake caused it to overheat and fade badly);
3) the seat was a joke, thin, hard and stuck to the frame like a home-made 1968 chopper (compare cushy, plush saddles on 1950's Chiefs and Harley Glides);
4) there is an ugly cut away of the left front fender to clear the brake caliper, - which is why factory never showed large left side photos - again looking very home-made and last-minute (compare elegant solution on Kawasaki Drifter);
5) the front fender looks too narrow compared to the back (and vice versa) - compare 1940's and 50's Chiefs where front and rear fenders are of equal width, and again the Drifter looks better. Really the new Chief front fender could've been made fat to match the rear by having the side cover the lower fork legs, which would also have solved the problem of cutting out the fender to clear the brake, (brake would hide under fender as at rear) but I suspect this was rejected because this would have made the front brake overheat and fade just like the rear, leaving the rider with no brakes. In the style v. function battle you cannot compromise to the point of danger);
6) rear drive is on left side and should be on right side to match original Indians (not to mention Sportster, V-Rod, Ducati, and new Triumphs);
7) just like most Hawgs, the carb and air filter stick out so much it forces you to curve your leg around it so you can't get a straight "shot" at the brake or shifter and after an hour or two you get painful cramps (like my 1980 FLT tortured me on a day long ride). I couldn't see paying $38000 (Canadian price) for a bike with this major ergonomic flaw. I would've thought that moving the carb to the left would have solved this design flaw, but no.
In my dreams I restyle the new Chiefs and add shaft drive (belts can snap from stones or lack of regular adjustment) and end up with a Kaw Drifter. So I finally tested one circa 2003 and found it felt light despite all the bulk (fenders aren't metal so that reduces weight), handled OK for a cruiser (terrible turning radius though, almost dangerously wide - no U-turns on single lane roads are possible), was very smooth and surprisingly fast - found myself doing 165 kph (over 100 mph) with ease and still some twist left in the throttle. The Drifter is as reliable as a rock, so there was no feeling that this speed would cause a breakdown. Of course it had fuel injection, which helped a lot. The "acid test" was when I thought to myself "I could ride all day on this." So my heart went to the Indian but my brains and wallet to the Kawasaki. Below are some depictions of late model Kaw Drifters for those in other countries who may not have seen them. The one with the long custom pipes is owned by Alan LaCross.
In 2005 I test rode a Kawaski 800 Drifter (the 1500's baby brother)and also found it a superb machine. It was really the perfect bike except that on the highway the mill felt more like a 500 c.c. twin. buzzy and with very little reserve power, thus not suitable for touring or commuting on the expressway for more than half an hour. Also with the pseudo rigid rear frame and the rear fender swinging with the wheel you cannot mount saddlebags in the normal manner. However for anything less it was the best bike I have ever ridden and I wanted to ride it all day (so long as I did not have to go on expressways). I finally found out why the engine seems so small on the highway. (Normally an 800 c.c. twin would be peppy.) The bike, I since learned, weighs 600 pounds when full of oil and fuel! Can't understand why since it is chain rather than shaft drive. Must be the liquid cooling and internal engine balancers. Handling was amazing for such a heavy bike with fat tires. Felt as light as a 450 pound British twin. I thought I was riding a bike of about that weight. This Kaw is arguably a true successor to the original Indian Scout. In comparison Kawasaki's 1600 Nomad felt like a whale, just too big and vague handling, with a very irritating huge gap beween 1st and 2nd gear, and a not very comfortable seating position. Unfortunately the Kaw 1500 Drifter (first 3 photos below) ceased production with the 2004 model (outlasting the Gilroy Chief by only a year) and the smaller Drifter (lower right photo - red) ended in 2005. For more photos of stock and Indianized Drifters see the "Modifieds" page of this site (use handlebar at top to navigate).
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Most bikes over 700 c.c. are bought from the heart rather than the head (excepting maybe sports bikes where riders buy based on performance stats), and Indian had patriotism plus nostalgia going for it. Why buy an "offshore" brand (albeit made and assembled in the USA) or a new American model when you can buy into all the history and mystique? Remember, engineer Oscar Hedstrom and bicycle racer George Hendee formed the original Indian Co. in 1900 in Springfield Mass. and the first Indians hit the streets in 1901, a year before Triumph and two years before H-D.
Photos below are of a Y2K and 2001 Chief. The yellow job on the left is owned
by Rod McAfee in McKinney Texas, He loves it and says its #1182 of 2000 made
that year.
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Over the years Chiefs grew from 61 to 74, to (in 1950) 80, to (in 1999) 88 to (in 2002) 100 CID! Or in metric from 1 liter to 1.64 litres (1000 cc. to 1640 cc.) The original Power Plus engine came out in 1916, to replace the Big Twin. It was a 42 degree V-twin side-valver displacing 61 cubic inches or 1 liter (a thousand cc's, the same as the Big Twin). It only made 17 horsepower but considering the Big Twin only made seven, that was a big improvement.
Jumping ahead to 2002, the new Power Plus was a 45 degree V-twin valve-in-head, pushrod operated, still with two valves per cylinder, but with a huge 1640 c.c. or 100 cubic inches. The "Powerplus" engine displacement beat Harley by 200 c.c or 12 cubic inches and was in the Yamaha Road Star 1600 - 1700 c.c. band. Like the old side-valved Scouts and Chiefs, it had the carburetor on the left side, (plus it's a good styling move to dress up the left side, plus the rider could reach the rear brake pedal more easily), the valve covers were finned to give a bit of cooling and resemblance to the old flatheads, and it looked like the oil pump is close to where it was on the flatheads. There appears to be a spin-on oil filter next to this flat, squarish area where previously the obtrusive "points" cone used to stick out.
Like all old American V-twins the stroke is longer than the bore (80 X 108 mm. or 3.875" X 4.25") which means lots of torque at low rpms for relaxed riding and avoid high rpms because they aren't there (and if they were the piston speed would be so high destruction would occur - one reason Japanese sports bikes last is their stroke is so short they don't get up much piston speed, but of course this means you must use the high rpms to get any power, making for a relatively frantic riding experience.) The Power Plus pushrods are hydraulic, just like your typical Detroit engine, making adjusting valve lash (tappet clearances) a rare occurrence and reducing mechanical noise. Ignition is modern: solid state and computerized. The engine has a 42 mm. Mikuni carb, probably the only Japanese item on an Indian, but hey, Soichiro Honda, founder of Honda, rode an Indian Scout before he started making his own bikes. (Yes, a 1940's Indian was the inspiration for all the Honda bikes and cars we see today.) The new Power Plus was only in the 2002 and 2003 Chief, leaving the 88 inchers for the Scout as traditionally the Scout had a smaller engine than the Chief (but Scouts had grown from 45 to 88 CID and Chiefs from 74 to 100, so the 2000 - 2003 Scout is a bigger than a 1950's Chief.) Everything is bigger in the USA. The 1999-2003 Indians were made in Gilroy, California rather than Springfield,Massachusetts, by the way. (The 2009 models are to be built in King's Mountain, North Carolina. Visit www.indianmotorcycle.com for the latest news.)
Other tech
specs on the 2002 Chief I took from the Long Island Indian dealership web site:
* Why they didn't just make it 32 like the Spirit? 34 is still too much - maybe
with all the sheet metal on the fenders, the bike is susceptible to sidewinds
and truck gusts so a sluggish rather than skittish steering setup is needed?
New chassis design with 60 percent more rigidity for improved handling. New
cantilever swingarm configuration delivering 60 percent more rigidity while
reducing overall weight by 14 percent. Chassis features a reinforced, large
diameter backbone and all-new KW rising rate, single-shock rear suspension with
adjustable preload. Better handling and a full inch more rear travel.
New ergonomically-designed, hand-stitched seat for (much-needed) added comfort
and reduced fatigue.
Reinforced rear structure for added passenger comfort and durability.
Larger 5.8-gallon fuel tank for increased range
Larger speedometer with digital odometer for increased visibility
Brembo 4 piston brakes (front and rear)
Overall weight reduced by 14 percent.
Rake reduced from 36 to 34 degrees. *
Following
are a few shots of a mildly customized 2002 Chief kindly sent in by owner Col.
Aaron Kenneston of Uncle Sam's army.
Here is a URL link to enjoy many more photos of Aaron's 2002 Chief. You can also see larger, sharper versions of the above photos there: link
Note the 1953 Chief panel around the headlamp, the front and rear crashbars, the old style horn and location and old style luggage rack. Gorgeous, but why or why did they leave off the fork leg covers? What's with this sport-bike look on a Decker? Why not fork shrouds as on the regular Chief? The 1950-53 Chiefs did not have this bare look. Even the new Triumph America and Speedmaster have metal fork shrouds and they are far sportier than the Vintage. Other than this gaffe, a beaut. One tester's only complaint was that the droopy front crash bars dug in and prevented much greater lean angles. The 2004 model was to look the same but with better brakes. To see the 2009 model which looks even nicer than the above, visit www.indianmotorcycle.com.
Indian had many models and names for them over the years, but the Spirit was brand new. As can be seen, the Spirit was basically a 1999 - 2003 Chief without the fender skirts and had a slightly less massive front end. The one below has optional patriotic tank painting.
Further Spirit specs were:
Displacement 88 Cubic inch (1442 cc) Bore/Stroke 3.625 in. x 4.25 in. Transmission
Constant Mesh, Foot Shift, 5-Speed Carburetor S&S E Type, 1 7/8 in bore / 47.6
mm Exhaust System 2 into 1 Primary Drive Chain Drive-Wet Clutch Final Drive
Aramid-reinforced Belt Dimensions & Weights Seat Height 28 in. / 711 mm Ground
Clearance 5.75 in. / 146 mm Wheelbase 67 in. / 1702 mm Overall Length 99.5 in.
/ 2527 mm Overall Width 43.5 in. / 1105 mm Rake 32deg. Trail 5.25 in. / 133.4
mm Fuel Capacity 4.75 gallon U.S. / 18 litres(1.75 quarts / 1.65 litres reserve)
Oil Capacity 3.0 quarts / 2.8 liters w/filter Dry Weight 620 lbs. / 282 kgs.
Wheels, Tires and Brakes Front Wheel 60 Spoke-Chrome, 3.5 in x 16 in Rear Wheel
60 Spoke Chrome, 3.5 in x 16 in Front Tire 130/90-16 67H Rear Tire 130/90-16
73H Front Brake 4-Piston Caliper, Billet Aluminum Rear Brake 4 Piston Caliper,
Billet Aluminum General Instruments Analog Speedometer with odometer, Proprietary
bezel with V-shaped Indicator lights layout. Seat: Indian. Frame: Indian. Front
Suspension: 41mm Hydraulic Dual-dampening conventional style Rear Suspension:
Nitrogen charged Hydraulic absorber with adjustable pre-load. Colors Black,
Medium Silver Deluxe Colors Black/Red, Black/Silver, Black/Cream, Red/Cream
Below we
see the Indian Dakota which is built in Britain. This modern reincarnation of
the fabled Indian Four (straight 4 cylinder) has a Volvo based engine and shaft
drive. Volvo is Swedish but original Indian designer Oscar Hedstrom was from
Sweden too, so that is no problem. Production began about five years ago. It
is built to order rather than mass-produced. It received a very favorable road
test review in Classic Bike magazine a few years ago. It is apparently available
for sale in the USA (price about $30,000 which is low for a hand assembled machine)under
the name Dakota. It is a genuine Indian since it is a product of Indian Motorcycle
Ltd., based in the UK (Britain), a different entity than the Indian Motorcycle
Company based in the USA (which is not producing anything). The US company bought
the intellectual property rights from the Gilroy company's bankruptcy trustee,
but these rights do not apply to Britain. To keep trademark rights you have
to use them, not hoard them, so the US company will soon have to begin production,
but they face the same financial and market forces that forced the Gilroy company
to fail two years ago, perhaps moreso since there have been even more huge V-twins
on the market from Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, Victory (Polaris), while Harley just
keeps getting stronger. Kawasaki could re-introduce its biggest Drifter (with
the Nomad's engine) to compete with a skirted Indian Chief. The big V-2 market
may be close to saturation, but there is only one straight-4 in the market and
it is an Indian. Visit www.pr2.se/mc/dakota4/index.htm
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Here we see US Army Col. Kenneston touring London on an Indian Dakota 4:
This site is not the official site of either of the makers of the current line of Indian motorcycles.