Welcome Scouts and ex-Army Dispatch Riders old and young. BTW, if you didn't get here directly from the big brother site, www.IndianChiefMotorcycles.com, with its history of Indian, hundreds of photos of Chiefs and Fours and English made Indians, check it out later. (There's a link at the end of this web page.) That site also has features on racers and customs, and rare prototypes from the 1940's thru the 1980's and early to mid 1990's.

We begin with a Scout (1939?) I photographed near Toronto a few years ago. The bike at first looks much modified but really just has a bobbed rear fender, disc brake on the front, and a 16" rear tire/rim and unknown rear hub/brake. (Plus a non-stock paint job.) The bike looks real fast and racey. I never get tired of oggling this fine example of craft and art. Would the owner please let us know who he is and what mods I may have missed. Underneath, photo courtesy of Zippy Lowson, is a West Coast Scout bob job. Again will the owner let us know who he is to take a bow?

Below left is a 1940 Scout hillclimber blasting up Mount Douglas (Victoria B.C. in 1945 ridden by Bob Shanks. Note the magneto under the seat. Indians were popular hillclimbers in the 1940's and 50's, before the OHV BSA's, Triumphs and Sportsters took over. Compared to a sidevalved Harley, a competition Chief or Scout was more powerful and lighter. Hillclimbing is as much about skill and raw guts as it is power, so Indians were still doing well in hillclimbing into the 1970's. If you've never watched a hillclimb, treat yourself. It is the most exciting form of motorcycle racing to watch. To the right of it is another hillclimber piloted by Laughing Indian Riders Club President Don Doody. (Latter photo courtesy Allan "Zippy" Lowson.)

Below we see a shot of Indian dealer Chuck Myles on his Indian hillclimber in the mid 1990's. To the right of Chuck is a shot, courtesy of Zippy Lowson, of an early Scout hillclimber with Edison-Splitdorf magneto and the usual chains on the rear wheel.

Next is Allan "Zippy" Lowson of the Laughing Indian Riders club racing and posing with the club's Scout in the mid 1990's at a track near Vancouver. Note the Norton front end, primary drive and gearbox. The engine has dual carbs.

Below left is a shot, courtesy Zippy, of the right side of the club racer. Below right is a photo, courtesy Allan again, of George Routelier's flatracker Chief. Compared to modern flat tracker's the length of this thing is amazing.

During WW II the Allies used lots of Harley and Indian flathead V-twins of 500 - 1200 cc displacement. The rare Moto-Guzzi type Indian 841 was a transverse rather than in-line V, with other Guzzi-like features such as shaft drive and foot shift but the barrels and head were straight 750 Scout. The 841 never saw action and only about a thousand were built. Much more common were the 741b's of 500 cc and the 640b's of 750 cc. (Confusing, as one would expect the 640 to be a 600 cc. built in 1940 and the 741 to be a 750 built in 1941, but Indian seemed to lose its logic during WW II and never recover from it. It was likely the only US company to lose money instead of make big profits from selling equipment to the military.) In Western Europe, especially England, and in New Zealand and Australia one finds many 741's still running around. In New Zealand there is a big racing scene around them. In Canada and the USA, the 640's predominate. There are also (relatively) a lot of army Chiefs in North America. (Compared to the Indians, ex-army Harley 45's are very common, or at least were in the 1950's and sixties.)

Below left is a 1940 Sport Scout I saw at Oley Pennsylvania in 2005. I assumed it was a non-runner. To my surprise not long after I took the photo I saw it running around the rally site sounding strong and perfect, starting easily, never missing a beat. Goes to show you can't judge a book by its cover. For comparison to the right of the "beater" is a front end of a perfectly restored 1940 Sport Scout. I saw several other slightly beaten up unrestored "street fighter circa 1945" style Chiefs which turned out to run fine too! Seemed the owners of these "beaters" were having more fun, certainly getting more riding, than the $25000 over-restored trailer queen bikes. In their day Indians were work horses, with riders putting on many miles and expecting reliability. The thing with old Hogs and Injuns is if used regularly they run much better and trouble-free than when used infrequently. (Come to think of it, same applies to the human body.)

Below left (RED) is a 1940 Sport Scout which is neither unrestored nor over restored. Below right (BLACK) is a 1940 Sport Scout which has been chopped. :

The photos show two left side shots of a typical military 741, perfectly restored by Jim Parker of Ashwood, Victoria, Australia. (Check his website for many other perfectly restored Indians www.Parkerindian.com.au.) The olive green color seems a bit too dark. Below that is a right side view of a 1944 US Army Scout with correct olive drab offered for sale in Jan. 2008 on CycleTrader.com

After the war and to this date, Ozzies and Kiwis have been "civilianizing" the 640's and 741's, prettying them up and in the case of the 45 inchers, which were detuned Sport Scouts, converting them to Sport Scout specs. (The Sport Scout came out in 1934 to replace the 101 Scout. The Scout got more finning and skirted fenders in 1940 but not many were produced in 1940 and '41 and production of civilian and military Scouts ceased around 1944.) Another hop-up trick is to use Chief 74 inch flywheels and rods in the Scout, to make a 950 cc. Chout. (Wonder whether 80 inch Chief would also work, or even the new 84 inchers made by Kiwi? Obviously you'd have to put base spacers in to lengthen the barrels. Then the intake manifold might not be long enough as the heads would be further apart. Meanwhile the heads would be sitting so high they might foul the fuel tank or not clear the frame. Such is the fun of modifying a motorcycle.)

The next photos show a wee 741 that has been civilianized by Jim Parker. This one has been converted to 600 cc.

Here are a few more photos of Indian Scout motorcycles: The first of a 1927 with a sidecar, next a 1939, then a 1941 Sport Scout (light green and cream), a 1930's bobber, and finally a dark candy apple red fading to black 1940 or '41.

Many Indian riders were irate that there was no V-twin flathead Scout for sale after the war. Privately owned Scouts continued to win races for many years after the war. Some privateers put Chief flywheels in to get 950 c.c. (57 CID) and a lot more power out of their racing or souped up street Scouts, and these "Chouts" are still valued today. The factory did relent somewhat in 1948, but only for racers, by producing 50 racing Scouts stamped FDH, but commonly known as the “big base Scout” or the "648 Daytona" as Daytona was where most were raced. (This proves that Indian had the ability to keep making Scouts after the war, and it was a management decision to stop just before 1949 when the "torque" models went on sale.) The model 648 big base Scouts performed extremely well in their class (Class C) and continued to win races for the next six years! In fact at various other types of races across the USA, racing Scouts continued to do well and even win up to the 1970s! Their demise (other than being many years old by then) was likely due to the Harley K model and British twins such as the Norton, Triumph and BSA.

In retrospect it can be argued that Indian made a big mistake by dropping the V-twin Scout. It was a popular model and its "high tech" replacement the OHV but miniscule Warrior was a flop. Indian could have easily converted the 45 CID flathead Scout to 57 CID (950 cc) using Chief bottom ends, and used the military 841's frame, to keep them competitive for a few more years. Harley did not come out with its OHV sports model until 1957.Below we see a photo of Jerry Chinn's Indian flat trackers. I think this photo was taken in the late 1990's or early 21st century. Racer number 13 is a Big base 648. Enthusiasts make reproduction crankcases and other parts for the model 648, attesting to the merits of the design. If you think an Indian 750 cc flathead is wimpy like a Harley "45" (750 flathead) you should hear these racing Scouts being warmed up in the paddocks at the annual AMA Vintage days in mid-Ohio. Music to the ears! Imagine how many more years these 648 Scouts and privately souped up Scouts could have won races if they had had a four speed footshift gearbox like the British bikes instead of the ancient 3 speed hand shifter. Too bad the factory's own footshift gearbox did not come out until 1949 and could not be adapted to the earlier Scouts. Of course part of the success of the V-twin Scouts was the riders who raced them: Ed Kretz, Floyd Emde, Johhnny Spiegelhoff, Ted Edwards, Art Hafer, John Greenlee, Jack Horn, Bill Huguley, Bob Holt to name just a few.

 

---

Post War Scout / Warrior parallel twins

In 1945 with the war over, Indian gave up on the V-twin Scout as obsolete, and spent a few years and all of its money developing the OHV "Torque" series designed by Chief Engineer Briggs Weaver. The Torque series was modelled after British designs, and came onto the market in 1949. Harley also copied the British about three years after Indian tried, but Harley did not use a parallel vertical twin engine and kept to its tried and true (and popular) V-twin engine design. It brought out a new flathead 750 in 1952 (the K). Like the new OHV Indian twin sport bike, the K too was also a poor seller initially. It had gearbox problems and was far too slow to compete with the British. The gearbox was gradually improved and the engine size was upped by about 140 cc to 888 cc. for the 1954 model year. As the power increased, so did sales. This KH evolved in 1957 into the OHV Sportster of 883 c.c. which is still a big seller.

After WW II Indian tried to make its own version of a typical English twin (e.g. Triumph) and called it the Scout (in 1949). The engine was a parallel vertical twin (2 cyl.) OHV with British type gearbox and controls. The bike looks completely English except that for some reason the primary drive was on the right side instead of the left. However these new bikes were rushed into production for the 1949 model year (to replace the Chief which had been dropped as "obsolete" for that year) with countless problems unsolved and the new Scout only had 440 cc. and was a big flop. The third reason it failed was that the relative currencies of the US dollar and British pound sterling has changed, so that English bikes were quite cheap and the Indians could not compete price-wise. Dealers were irate and the Chief was re-introduced the next year (1950). By that year most of the problems with the Scout had been solved and the engine upped to 500 c.c. (30 CID) and the bike renamed Warrior but the bike had established a hopeless reputation and was still not a good price compared to Triumphs, BSA's, Nortons, Matchless, AJS, Royal Enfields, Ariels and Panthers which were being imported from Britain. The last few were made in 1952. When you see these bikes in real life they are quite small even compared to their Briitsh cousins.

Below is a maroon, then a black and then a yellow 1949 Scout, followed by a 1950 Warrior chopper, then a 1952 competition model "TT Warrior". The latter was superbly restored at great expense by British Motorbikes of North Hollyuwood. (Max Bubeck used to successfully race one of these and actor James Dean bought one.)

Lastly just for fun is a 1950 that has been "chopped". At first it looks like a Sportster chopper until one studies the engine.

Link to big brother site (if you didn't already get here from there): www.IndianChiefMotorcycles.com